Article on Joker's Sexuality

I have never, in all my life as being a Joker fan, wondered about that.
The thinge people think of...

Really? Never ever? ;)

you know, it seems it's only that excript that they question his sexuality, for a brief moment.
then they go on about how he compares killing to sex, and how it makes him feel powerful.

SEX is POWER. POWER equals SEX. it's possible tha the has Harley, not only as a girlfriend, but as some one to exsert his power over. She cant say no, she WONT say no, and she'll do any thing and every thing.

I think I went on a totally different tangent , so I'll stop here.

I think your tangent is pretty good, actually. Might have to ask our Joker(s)expert and check my books, but it's a very valid theory.

Personally, I think one of the interesting things about Joker's character is that all those theories fit his personality.

And while I *hate* Joker/Batman slash, I hate hate hate hate hate it... a small part of me does agree with Miller's view on the whole homoerotic fixation. From a psychological standpoint, it's very typical for such severe obsessions to either begin with, or lead into eroticism, whether or not the person(s) involved are conscience of it, if not only because of the whole power struggle thing.

Oh boy have I given this a lot of thought! XD Too much probably lol I love this community, it's so thought provoking.

Okay, so here's my novel lol

Now, I love the idea and the fics of Joker and Harley having sex...but, much as I ponder it, I just can't see it. Not to say they wouldn't have sex or, in theory, haven't (because I think they have at least once), just that I think it's probably insanely infrequent. However, that does not mean their relationship isn't sexual. I think their relationship is very sexual and sexually charged. It's just, the nature of their relationship is so unique.

I see the Joker as very sexual, but in a strange way. I think that his sexuality would be like his mind, very fluid. Because Joker is so different from most people, I don't think he would view sex in the same way.

In fact, due to the obsessive and psychotic nature of his mind, I doubt that sex the way most people know it even plays a part in him. Long story short, I see him as sort of pan-sexual. So, in that sense I agree with Miller, O'Neil and Engleheart. For the record though, I don't think Joker wants to fuck Batman...just that the idea of tormenting him and toying with him could very well be sexually exciting. And, like O'Neil I can see him as asexual as well. Why? Because I don't think he relates sex to other people and I don't think he has any concern for sex. That said, I think Engleheart is spot on with his opinion too. I've always thought that Harley probably got a kick out of seeing him kill/torture his victims as well. In fact, I could see something that like that as some sort of a shared sexual experience between the two of them. Maybe something along those lines would be a type of regular sex between them.

One of my psychology professors once told a story about a couple with a very unusual sexual relationship. This relationship instantly made me think of the Joker and Harley.

Explicit and strange content ahead!!

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Okay, so every day when the husband would come home from work his wife would hand him a pair of her high heels. He would then...um...well, you get the idea, all over the shoes. The wife would lick the shoes clean and that was their sex life.

Strange? Very! I don't think that Joker and Harley are doing that, but I've always felt that kind of related to their sex life, since I don't necessarily see them having standard sex. If anything, really kinky sex is all I can imagine for them, because why would they have regular sex when nothing else in their relationship is regular?

Their relationship is just so master/slave in many respects that standard sex hardly need happen. There are just so many little things to that which could be entirely sexual.

I still have a lot to develop on the idea, but that's the gist lol

I know you posted this a long time ago but I AGREE WITH YOU 100%

Totally.

In fact if you wannt check out my site, I wrote a big rambly thing sort of on this
http://www.harley-quinn.com/ramble.php

may I please reproduce this on jokerxharley.com? credit and link included! :)

Yeah! That would be lovely! Thank you.

it's done - check it out under 'contributions' :)
www.jokerxharley.com

Personally, the way I've seen it is as follows... (if there is are problems with my grammar I'm sorry its almost 5am and all of my thoughts about this finally hit me so I thought I would post while my thoughts are fresh.)

For as long as I can remember, I've always seen the Joker as a heterosexual. He is an extremely vain one but one nethertheless. That said I felt that he needed someone who had to meet him head on. To do the initial at the very least seducing to make him realize see that someone else for at least once in his life have some kind of control over him. Additionally, I feel that Harley is perfect for that. Sure, she is passive most of the time, she does his bidding and submits to his abuse verbal and otherwise however it is thanks to her as far as I know that he got extremely close to his goal which was taking care of Batman or at least getting the upper hand more often. I think that is in part for all of the support that she gives him. Sure, he tries to shrug her off but I think that her constant support and love does help him.

Now his for his sexuality I believe he needs her putting him on such a pedestal that helps him. At times, it may cause him to go (excuse the pun.) go batty but it seems to make him better at what he does. There's that one shot of him in Mad Love where she infuriates him and then he tries to spray her with the acid from his flower. It is her actions that tend to make urge/turn him on to unbelievable levels of excitement. So having that as a kind of example for their sex life I believe that possibly they don't have sex all the time but sometimes what we see as these horrible forms of abuse towards her is his way of showing her how much he cares. She retorts back by wearing the sexy nighties and outfits in order to have her sexual desire for him on constant display so that he is always wear how she is solely attracted to him. What she says and how she acts in response to him is then her way of reacting to his advances in some kind of way.

Another reason why I say this is because look his goons he could care less about them and he hardly deals with them and we all know he could beat them but and most likely they wouldn't fight back. He just shoots them. Moreover, he has never shot Harley.

I'm sure we can all attest to the fact that he could have killed her long time ago. I mean even if you look at his storyline that interweaves with Superman and he turns her into a constellation. If he really hated her, he could have just killed her.

Ok...I'm sorry if none of this makes sense.
Rachel

BTW....themadpuppy....thank you for starting things like this...I really enjoy wrapping my mind around things like this!

Awesome and interesting point! That right there is pretty much my argument for when people insist that he doesn't love her...if he didn't, she'd be dead!

Thank you!

may I please reproduce this on jokerxharley.com? credit and link included!

Sure...that would be great!

Once its up there...can you tell me I would love to see it up on the site!

it's done - check it out under 'contributions' :)
www.jokerxharley.com

Fantastic!

Thank you! :^D

Well, yeah, the accepted diagnosis is that psychopaths get their sexual gratification from their obsession, not from a partner. However, Joker is obviously hyper intelligent and knows when sexuality is a good manipulating tool. Hence it makes sense for people to depict him harassing Batsy with come-ons, because he KNOWS that it enrages him. As to Harley, I think a lot of it is probably ego-related -- what super-genius minds being told over and over again that he is that? I do love the pairing, obviously, but I don't see it as a love\love pairing at all. I've seen writers depict Joker's way of showing how he feels affection in a convincing way, like in "Harley Quinn", but it's tricky.

Very fascinating topic! I know it's been a few months since someone last posted here, but I'm going to go ahead and give my theory as well! ...By the way, I can't believe I hadn't found out about Harley Quinn and the Joker relationship sooner. Oh well! Here goes:

First of all, I find body language a good tool in figuring out what these characters sex lives, with each other, are like. I've taken these screencaps from the episode "Harley and Ivy" and analyzed the gestures that both were making while speaking to each other on the phone and they went a little something like this:



First off, we see the Joker throwing away his magazine-(basically stopping what he's doing to figure out what SHE'S up to and where she is.) He also has a look of vulnerability on his face, which to me anyway makes it seem like he's worried about her and possibly making a sign that he definitely cares for her! ;)



Now here, he's nervously running a hand through his hair. That could mean a number of things.



Ah! As one of you were saying before, this picture could be egotistical or it could be a way of him getting ready to see Harley.


Again, I really do think that this image is showing that he's an egotist. But, again it could be going both ways. He could be melting at the mear fact that Harley's on the other line

As for their sex life together, I honestly think he sees more of himself in her. Sort of like a female version of himself. When he saw Harley for the first time in the episode Mad Love....He might have been thinking that she might be his other half in way. He might see falling in love with her or having sex with her as being another extension of himself in a way. I'm not sure if that makes any sense. But basically he doesn't see "Harley" as his other half. He see's himself in Harley, therefore she completes him.

I just had to post herree too to say I agree with nearly everyone here. I've never seen the relationship as 'love' but obsession, which is sexual in it's own right, and often leads to sexual arousal without the awareness of the person who has the obsession. I think having sex with Harley- very kinky sex, I think- is just another way of possessing her. I don't see him as being lead by or terrible interested in sex as people are, but it is something to do. I think he gets off on violence, rather than sex. In fact, I think he'd see a one-night stand as a waste of time.

Regaurding the Batman/Joker slash, I don't hate it, because it's fun and interesting, but I don't think there's much truth to it. He doesn't want to have sex with Batman, but he does WANT him. Like he wants Harley. Does make sense? There's this possession, this obsession, this ownership of both Harley and Batman. And the fact that htey can both make him laugh without being DEAD is astonishing to me. :) Overall, I think in order to understand the Joker's feelings for Harley, we need to understand the Joker's feelings for Batman.

They're both still alive after all. And they both make him laugh.
So, I vote 'asexual' more than anything, though I don't think he is egostistical in that way. I think he just doesn't care much about sex as normal people do. Besides, he's the Joker. Labels are nearly impossible, because he'll just do something to throw us all off again. :D

What are your thoughts on this?